Curse

Antheus · Dec 01, 2007, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Build a guild or join one. Quit PUGing if it's that much of a bother.

Why? UB gg. Who needs guilds...

See... that's the problem. For single-player games, the challenge is not an issue.

But in MMOs, difficulty must promote inter-dependancy.

D2 is also a very bad example. Not only is it a single player game (oh, right, several people can play together), but is also nothing but neverending grind.

Esan · Dec 01, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

The casual player isn't going to have the time to grind out their Norn title to use UB (or any PvE skill) to its full extent.

Not "any". Eternal Aura is fully powerful at SS rank 0. Sunspear Rebirth Signet beats Resurrection Signet at SS rank 3. Triple Shot is almost perfect at Lux/Kur rank 1 because it is most probably being used for Nightmare Weapon spike anyway.

CyberNigma · Dec 01, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Why? UB gg. Who needs guilds...

See... that's the problem. For single-player games, the challenge is not an issue.

But in MMOs, difficulty must promote inter-dependancy.

D2 is also a very bad example. Not only is it a single player game (oh, right, several people can play together), but is also nothing but neverending grind.

What you mention is an age-old problem with life. There have always been times when people won't pay with you. You can't just force people to want to play with you even if you design the game like that. If you force them to join together (take out H/H) then maybe they will. Maybe they will form groups with other people and not you. Then you're in the same situation. There are over 4 million copies sold. I'm pretty sure there are enough guilds that will let you in, unless something's wrong with you. That's the risk in multiplayer games (computer or otherwise). If people don't like you they won't play with you.

Some people play with real-life friends and won't play with you regardless of what the game does. They just won't play. Some people will not PUG at all (which was the problem people complained about before all this UB stuff). What you need is something like a matchmaking service that other games have. Again, that can really suck too. That would resemble Random Arena.

GW is basically an overblown D2 as far as the way it exists (small groups pay in instances while the big towns are chat/trade zones). There are just more instances and more towns. As far as story and mechanics, yeah..

Also, most MMOs don't have Heroes and/or Henchman. They are usually geared towards solo play except the various dungeons and/or raids(according to the style of the MMO). GW is really on the extreme end of the MMO spectrum. That's why I mention the Diablos.

Antheus · Dec 01, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Also, most MMOs don't have Heroes and/or Henchman. They are usually geared towards solo play except the various dungeons and/or raids(according to the style of the MMO). GW is really on the extreme end of the MMO spectrum. That's why I mention the Diablos

There's only one problem - as a single player game, GW is a disaster. And with multiplayer aspect removed - is that really a good thing?

Perhaps it is, hard to say, mostly because GW is a "scam". If you sum up the cost of all expansions, you come to a reasonable part of a monthly subscription.

Which is where GW is going. Not trying to appeal the MMO crowd, but to bring in the single player crowd under the pretense of online gameplay.

H/H cannot be removed from GW since the world is too big. The game would become unplayable (or perhaps it wouldn't).

But the consequence of simplification of PvE is that there is no challenge left. And not just because the game is old, but because it truly has been dumbed down beyond recognition.

And since there is no challenge, there must be artificial rewards. Titles and such.

Once upon a time, beating THK was an huge achievement for most. Today, DoA is a matter of 3 hours of spare time that you grind out so you get something in HoM.

This is the reason PvE is so pointless and unrewarding. This is what unbalanced skills do.

CyberNigma · Dec 01, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

There's only one problem - as a single player game, GW is a disaster. And with multiplayer aspect removed - is that really a good thing?

Perhaps it is, hard to say, mostly because GW is a "scam". If you sum up the cost of all expansions, you come to a reasonable part of a monthly subscription.

Which is where GW is going. Not trying to appeal the MMO crowd, but to bring in the single player crowd under the pretense of online gameplay.

H/H cannot be removed from GW since the world is too big. The game would become unplayable (or perhaps it wouldn't).

But the consequence of simplification of PvE is that there is no challenge left. And not just because the game is old, but because it truly has been dumbed down beyond recognition.

And since there is no challenge, there must be artificial rewards. Titles and such.

Once upon a time, beating THK was an huge achievement for most. Today, DoA is a matter of 3 hours of spare time that you grind out so you get something in HoM.

This is the reason PvE is so pointless and unrewarding. This is what unbalanced skills do.

I understand. From your (and probably most forum posters) perspective you are right. PvE is no challenge to you, in normal or hard mode. However, the majority of people don't post here or even know about it. I help out some of those people (many of them don't use wiki or places like guru). Whereas it took me a few months to finish prophecies, a friend just finished it a few months ago (and we both started out together). He's playing Nightfall now and finds it plenty of challenging. I come in to help every now and then but don't try to run him through it. See the thing is, for people that don't play all the time, they don't pick up as many nuances. It doesn't get easy on the same level as the rest of us. You are probably better than me as I've never been able to finish DoA and I've been playing since release of GW. I was finally able to solo THK back in the day before its nerf, but some people took 40+ tries to beat it (whereas I did it in less than 10).

I recently tried to H/H the first dungeon in the Duncan series and got my ass handed to me something fierce. I've split my time with other games. Some people suck at GW. I suck at parts of GW. I don't mind. I can reverse engineer and exploit the latest malware handed to me yet I can't manage to take H/H through the first level of Slaver's Exile (think that was the dungeon name). and it's quite ok as it's just a game. I don't have to be elite at it, and most people aren't. Most people don't find the game too easy. Most people still find challenges in parts they haven't played. Don't bring the game up to your level because it would hurt more people than it would help. Many people won't become better players. Instead they may just leave altogether to find an easier game.

Again, I'm all for introducing another hard mode (preferably with perma-death which would prevent people from eventually plowing through it via brute force), but eave the easy stuff because it may only be easy to you.

EDIT: Do you know why they introduced the map travel quest in Nightfall? It's because there were actually people playing the game that didn't know they could do it. One person i knew was running between towns before I told him about it. Don't assume everyone is at your playing level. UB seems to make it more fun (yeah it really is more fun when your skill level is to the point that the alternative is a grind or doing something over and over till you brute force it as not everyone becomes a better player).

EDIT: Oh, and here's why you see the UB's (or at least notice them. They are probably this type of gamer, which has existed since the beginning of RPGs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchki...-playing_games)

[QUOTE Wiki Entry]Many on-line roleplaying games, such as Diablo II, Final Fantasy XI, and World of Warcraft, foster this sort of roleplaying due to the limitations of MMORPGs in terms of personality. The stimulus created by improving one's equipment and stats can take the place of the emotion that is sometimes attained in "real life" roleplaying.[/QUOTE]

Gregslot · Dec 01, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

You made Ether Nightmare worst ¬¬

Lord Sojar · Dec 01, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

You made Ether Nightmare worst ¬¬

huh? Uhh, the OPs suggestion made it so you can shutdown any boss forever. Slap panic, and ether phantom on them, use Ether Nightmare, then slap malaise. No more boss.

Turbobusa · Dec 01, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Offtopic: they have way more than 4e pipe. when I see them spam 25e spells on recharge and for 2 minutes, they must have at least 10 pipes lol

Lord Sojar · Dec 01, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

Offtopic: they have way more than 4e pipe. when I see them spam 25e spells on recharge and for 2 minutes, they must have at least 10 pipes lol

They have 5 with reduced cost.

Nevin · Dec 01, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Here are some fixes I see that need to be added to the mix. Elemental Lord is laughable when compared to Glyph of elemental power, and on top of that lets take a look at the ranger skill. Triple Shot? Lmao, yeah because kindle+conjur spike is so meta right now, it is quite possibly the worst PvE skill EVER.

Heres a list of the skills for reference before looking at my revisions. http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Kurzick_Skills

Elemental Lord 10 Energy - 1 Activation - 45 Recharge
For 30...54 seconds, your elemental attributes are boosted by 1....2 and all of your elemental skills recharge 13...25% faster.

Triple Shot 10 - Energy 10 - Recharge
Bow Attack. Shoot three arrows simultaneously at target foe. These arrows deal 35...5% less damage and target foe suffers from deep wound for 10....25 seconds if ALL arrows hit.

Or...

Triple Shot 10 - Energy 10 - Recharge
Bow Attack. Shoot three arrows simultaneously at target foe. These arrows deal 75...35% less damage and target foe is knocked down, suffering from crippled and bleeding for 10....25 seconds.

Or... (last one I promise.)

Triple Shot 10 - Energy 1/4 - Activation 10 - Recharge
Bow Attack. Shoot three arrows simultaneously at target foe. These arrows cannot be blocked.

zwei2stein · Dec 01, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

EDIT: Oh, and here's why you see the UB's (or at least notice them. They are probably this type of gamer, which has existed since the beginning of RPGs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchki...playing_games)

And its ok to reward this kind of gameplay or what? Becuase they exist, it does not mean they should be cattered for. They have tons of other games to "excell" in.

Anyway, i dont see that kind of clueless people actually using ursan, because if you cant figure out basics, how would you know about ursan and what it does for you?

Number of FoW sets and other stuff like that in ursan groups is alarming. Theese are not poor newbies needing helping hands, theese are veterans who managed to stay "noobs" and who now abuse broken stuff to simulate playing well in envrioment which needs it.

Clueless players that are described as ones who need ub to help him dont use it ... they cant afford consumables, they dont know that it exists, they dont have rank that makes it worthwhile, they have no idea that there is this elite mission thingie.

Turbobusa · Dec 01, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

They have 5 with reduced cost.

Ho ok. must be even more in HM i presume.
Guys most of your "fixes" are overpowered.
Shoot 3 arrows at a time with 1/4 activation? no damage reduction? cannot be blocked? this should at least remove your preparation.

Lord Feathers · Dec 01, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Let's just nerf everything from Eye of the North, that way everyone will be happy

bel unbreakable · Dec 01, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

you dont really belive that do you

Lagg · Dec 01, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Summing up a few things that have been written in this thread.

• Ursan Blessing needs a nerf.

Okay, I agree with that.

Do it. And nerf the other two Blessings too. The "they're Elite" argument is pretty far-fetched (*cough* Lightbringer's Signet *cough*).

But there's already plenty of threads going around suggesting this. I was trying to formulate an alternate solution.

Also, I do understand people wish to keep UB as a sort of Tourist Mode skill, but simply asking everyone who wants to play the game "seriously" (PVE ELITISM LAWL) to ignore its existence is ridiculous.

• The skill changes I suggested are ludicrously overpowered (especially TNTF).

Of course they are. But so is Ursan Blessing.

Still, I'm being absolutely serious here. If Ursan Blessing gets to exist as an overpowered Elite for all professions, why shouldn't there be primary profession-specific skills (let's call it super-Elites) for every profession individually, allowing us to keep our primary profession's distinctiveness?

As someone put it here (or in another thread): UB is turning every individual profession into the same profession, with the only difference being Armor and Energy.

• Remove PvE skills altogether.

And Heroes too, while you're at it.

Not going to happen.

So what are we ending up with:

- Nerf UB, the most sensible solution. They take our toy away. A lot of people will be pissed.

- Buff the PvE skills I suggested (even if it's done in a different way). We get better toys. A lot of people will be happy. Or at least: no one will be pissed.

Okay, a few mobs might actually get seriously pissed and start whining here.

Comedy ensured.

zwei2stein · Dec 01, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lagg...
- Buff the PvE skills I suggested (even if it's done in a different way). We give more toys. A lot of people will be happy. Or at least: [B

no one will be pissed.[/B]
...

you are dead wrong about this. at least, you should have gathered enough from this thread to make that out.

dont feel no pain · Dec 01, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

I am acauly up for removing all blessings

....yes bold does make me special

Lagg · Dec 01, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

you are dead wrong about this. at least, you should have gathered enough from this thread to make that out.

So you're okay with one overpowered skill turning everyone into that same thing, but not okay with skills accentuating the distinctiveness of every profession?

All I'd like to hear is: "let's get some more Mesmers" instead of "let's get some more Ursans".

Heck, that's coming from someone who plays Warrior 90% of the time (this explains a lot, doesn't it? LOL MENDING NOOB).

And before I get the usual barrage of "Mesmers rock PvE already", yes, they do, but not quite as hard as Ursan Blessing.

But you know, I'm giving it all the benefit of the doubt. I really doubt there is still any intention at all behind PvE, unless you force yourself to ignore skills like UB.

I'm not going to pretend PvE is rocket science, but it used to be:

Here are mobs. Make a build and kill them.

Now it's:

Here are mobs. Use this skill and kill them.

EDIT: Long live italic and bold!

Can we also get [DONTARGUEWITHME] tags?

bel unbreakable · Dec 01, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

at the end of the day useing the ursan blessing on your own with heros and hench isint god mode and i belive thats how a lot of ppl play these days

bel unbreakable · Dec 01, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

and its not all about the chalenge is it its more the adventure is it not